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Post by Russell Francis on Aug 27, 2010 0:41:09 GMT -5
Ok, I've been holding back my tongue but for something like this...I gotta say something!
All respect to Alistair, I like what you did, but I gotta say, I just don't see how I lost a match like that. Yeah, I know it sounds like I'm bitching, but I'm just getting beat all the time by people who don't really talk up the match!
I felt in the write up to Alistair's match, I was hyping the match more than he was! I was putting together a storyline we could go with!
Alistair's story sounded like something from the movie "Repo Men" ! If what it takes to win a match is to recite a movie plot line instead of putting something meaningful together, I might as well just write a RP about "Avatar"!
I just need to say that because I think it's some BS that I've lost some close matches to guys who just win because they can take up most of the lines! I don't think it should be based on how long you can write. I'm one of those people who can put together a very good story in a little time. I'm kinda perturbed about it! Judges, let's look at what is being written instead of how long it is! That will help alot! I understand writing side plots to the story. It makes sense. But if 3/4ths of the damn RP is side plot and then just 2 paragraphs is about the match itself, why the hell even have a match!
I know that some don't like the trash talk involved in it, but let's face it, without trash talk Wrestling isn't even remotely viewable! There would be no connection! I'm just at my wits in on it! I'll improve but I want the judging to be a little bit more fair to the content as it pertains to the match itself! GOD!
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Post by brandon on Aug 27, 2010 0:53:52 GMT -5
I feel like I'm qualified to respond to this, since I'm a former/kinda current fed-head, and I also helped judge your match. I judged your match, just like I judge every other match, in every fed I've ran/judged or whatever else. The factors I use for judging are as follows:
1. Does the roleplay entertain? Meaning, when I'm reading the roleplay, does the roleplay hold my attention? Does it make me laugh if it's supposed to make me laugh, does it make me angry if it's supposed to make me angry.
2. Does the roleplay resonate? Meaning, when I'm done reading the roleplay, does it stick with my after the fact. Does it make me want to read it again, and does it make me want to think about it other than just at the time of reading.
3. Match/Angle Relevance. Meaning, do I feel like you talked up your match enough, and, if it were a real promo, would I want to watch your match.
Now, I can go in-depth with how I scored both of you in all three categories, if you want. But trust me, I will be brutally honestly with both of you, if you want me to publicly say how I voted.
EDIT I'm not saying that I think that I'm the greatest roleplayer ever, but, I do feel like I know quality when I read it. I've been doing this for about a decade, and, trust me, I know my shit when I see it.
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Post by kris on Aug 27, 2010 1:16:57 GMT -5
...if length determined wins and losses, then I wouldn't have beaten JCA. Just sayin'. But, then again, I suppose that I'm one of the people you're talking about since I actually develop my character instead of just having her spout off generic trash talk.
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Post by kris on Aug 27, 2010 1:52:18 GMT -5
...and you know what else I just remembered? Even if I am just a graphics mod, I am staff... staff that just got told that she didn't have to hold her tongue when it came to someone that is throwing a hissy fit because he's lost a couple of matches. Not only that, but yes - yes, I did see the shot you took at people like me and Jake and Rupp and Brand and a whole fucking HOST of other people that play this game, and play it well. So you know what? Fuck it - I'm gonna put your ass on blast.
Your promos are dry as fuck, Russell, and they're just as boring... and that's not even mentioning how you don't even try to establish a character for your character, or even use a concept that could be vaguely considered original instead of essentially ripping off MVP. What, you didn't think that anyone noticed that you were copying him beyond a couple of lame-ass attempts at catchphrases? We're not that stupid, dude.
You have a metric fuckton of dead wood in your promos, you repeat yourself... and don't even get me started on the goddamn exclamation points that end! Each! Sentence! When! There! Is! No! Fucking! Reason! For! It! I don't give a damn what your explanation is for it - there is no need for it, and there is no excuse for it. Did periods pillage your hometown and rape your mother or something? Jesus Christ doing the hokey pokey... and then you wonder why you lose against characters that actually have thought and hard work put into them.
In closing, if you want to win some matches where your opponent shows up? Use proper grammar, actually describe your scene, and for fuck's sake... try using your own ideas instead of parroting off someone else's over and over and over again.
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Post by dustyroad on Aug 27, 2010 2:01:24 GMT -5
As a preface to my post, I want to say that, in the past, I have both won and lost matches with the irrelevant CD stuff you're referencing, including an instance where I split a series of two matches in the same weekend with largely the same material; they were partner feds that allowed you to recycle CDs within the umbrella they shared. I will also preface my post by saying that I have not read your No Limits promo thread, so I have no input on your specific match.
I have played in both kinds of e-feds. I have played in e-feds where CDs about the Power Rangers fighting against Dracula and the A-Team on Io for the rights to know how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop (*gasp for air*) would have been totally kosher and encouraged, and I've played in feds where trash talk promos (called shoots where I "grew up") were king, to the point where people would spend thousands of words doing nothing but shooting on their opponent. In my time in this game, I have come to stand by one overarching rule concerning roleplaying, and if you read Brand's post, this'll sound really redundant.
Is it entertaining?
In the end, I don't give a shit how relevant to the match your roleplay was, because the mantra has always been "Who is the better writer?" If you can make me more interested in the Tootsie Roll Pop wars of Io than your opponent can about the match at hand, then you win. I'm not going to reference the wars on the show, but it's fine as a roleplay.
That said, as we are all wrestling fans, the average fedder is going to focus on wrestling, because that's what they know, and even if they try to stray away and try to write the next Twilight or what-have-you, it will still reek of wrestling. If they can make it work, good on 'em. If it doesn't (and if they go the Twilight route, it usually doesn't), then they'll pay for it in due course, by losing matches. Let's see if I can think of some examples...
Okay. Forgive me for using examples that only me, Ruppy, and Kris will have heard of before now.
CD arc that is boring as shit: female character has male tag team partner, there is romantic tension. Female character has former romantic interest that is also in stable, tags on occasion, and switches sides between her team and her ex-husband's team seemingly at the drop of a hat. Every time she gets close to someone, he breaks them up, sometimes because he's interested, sometimes just because he's a douche. Also, ex-husband sometimes recovers feelings for female character, sometimes wants her head on a pike. This also seems to change at the drop of a hat. Wash, rinse, repeat. For SIX YEARS.
Well, maybe that's unfair. I didn't really read her work except for a couple of years in the middle, but as someone who put shows together for her fed for six months, that is my judgment of that particular story arc.
CD arc that is not boring as shit. This one will be harder to summarize because the handler did not pull CDs out very often, but when he did, he fucking meant it. For a world title match, he did a CD about how his parents were killed and how he entered the Lebanese army at age 6. There was also some material about how his family would protest what he was doing, etc. (He is Lebanese-Australian, and so is his character. Do the math.) This was powerful enough, but his opponent also had some impressive CD work. What eventually won the voters (including myself) over was his last post. It was split into three parts. The first and third parts were passable, but important as resolutions of a storyline with themes like familial loyalty and forgiveness. The second part was a pretty short (relatively speaking) shoot on his opponent, but framed by the CD bits, where the usually intense character let himself be human for his family, the intensity is turned up to 47, and you FELT it. Your insides went from warm and fuzzy to turned inside out to fuzzy again, all at breakneck speed.
The important words here are "felt" and "resolution," I think. CDer #2 was someone that actually tied shit up when it was time. CDer #1 drags her shit out endlessly, and nothing ever happens. There is no climax and resolution, only rising action that ceased rising long ago. Sometimes her stuff works, but other times, it doesn't. CDer #2 was always on point.
I do not claim to be half as good as CDer #2, and I'm not saying CDer #1 is a bad writer overall, but with CDer #1, when her posts were long, you would read them and feel like she dragged them out for the sole purpose of being long. (Sort of like this post.) CDer #2 habitually posted long posts, but you never noticed, because he kept you involved the whole time, and when you were done, you still wanted more. Not so with #1.
My point at the end of all this long-winded, self-righteous rambling is that there are good CDs and bad CDs, and they are not necessarily divided up by match relevance. CDer #1 was having her romantic to-dos with other wrestling characters, and they would often clash and try to settle their insurmountable differences on camera during shows and matches, but that, too, never truly resolved, despite many matches being made out of her conflicts. CDer #2 would write CDs with only peripheral (if any) match relevance, but he made you want to read them all the same.
Having not read Ambrosia's posts, you'll have to answer this question yourself. Are his CDs the good kind or the bad kind?
If they're the good kind, shut the fuck up.
If they're the bad kind, he won't win matches. Refer to previous point.
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Post by Wade Mason on Aug 27, 2010 2:33:42 GMT -5
Since day one.
This has always been the fifth rule of True Glory. I don't care if say, Kaji Fireson roleplays had NOTHING to do with wrestling. If there wasn't a lick of "match relevance" in it. It isn't about shoots, it isn't about character development. It is about reading something that is easy to read, fun, and entertaining.
Yes, there are some feds out there that don't care about your CDs, they only want shoots. I've been in feds like this. I've also been in the opposite where shoots don't matter because anyone can recycle the same trash talk with just a different name and a different "your mom" joke. That's why both are accepted in TGW. This is "e-wrestling", I get that. But 90% of the people I know do this because they like to write and make up stories. The "best" roleplayers that I've seen in this game didn't have to focus on one aspect or another, because their roleplays were fun to read. Period.
Brand pretty much said it perfectly when he said;
Is this something that I loved and would read again? Do I feel like I just read the same recycled thing from a previous post? Did I just enjoy sitting down and reading something or did I feel like I just wasted my time?
That's what I want to see, that's how matches are judged. Yeah things like grammar and spelling are important because that plays into the "ease of flow" and the enjoyment of reading. I wouldn't want to pick up a book that wasn't well put together.
On this particular case: Yeah, the Ambrosia roleplays might be "far fetched" and seem weird but at the same time they came off as original and enjoyable. I could tell that the roleplay was well thought up and time and effort was put into it. Which ties right into the quality and not quantity.
As far as your judging be fair on content that pertains to the match itself, Russell, rule five. I've never, ever EEEEEEVER looked at who wrote more. I don't care how long your roleplays are. Someone who wrote a good QUALITY 8 paragraphs can easily beat a rambling, boring 30 paragraph roleplay. Before someone tries to flip out on rule five...
I know that if someone who was shoot heavy faced someone who used no shoot, it would be tough for the shooter. Which is why
Talk about what your non-shooter had been doing, call them out on it, make it INTERESTING. The Ambrosia character did NOT win because he "wrote longer". WRESTLING might not be interesting without shoots on TV, but this isn't wrestling, we are writers that love to do this. We love to make up storylines and write, it's more acting and flim making than anything.
I have the last word as the thread is closed. If you have anything else you'd like to share feel free to click the button at the top that says PMs and send whatever you want to whomever you want. If shit gets too out of hand, then we move to OOC rule three:
-Gabe
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